Curse

Bright Star Shine · Jan 31, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

This build requires Consumables to operate properly.

Deadly Paradox.

Tender Care · Jan 31, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I'm dealing with it very well. I got my Dhumm's Soul Reaper, Armbraces, maxed titles from Speed Booking, lots of gold and ectos from selling event items that I farmed from vaettirs, sold a couple nice endgame items like a BDS and froggy scepter, all thanks to my buddy SF. Until its nerfed I'm going to keep making more money than I know what to do with.

This is excatly what i really hate, nothing against you dude...but SF in this case it's ruining the fun of playing.

I don't say playing with SF isn't funny, it can be really hard in some areas, but the speed clears are really making everything so "industrial". Industrial farming, industrial dungeons, industrial end-game areas.

I'm still convinced that SF is not OP, but i must recognize it has ruined a bit the fair gameplaying in high-end areas.

This game need some renewal in the deep of its best: high-end areas.....

mage767 · Jan 31, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

High-end areas are easier with SF-based builds than regular missions....where you actually have to kill things to get objectives done.

Ban skipping on high-end areas.

Xiaquin · Jan 31, 2011, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Deadly Paradox.

I'm not sure what your point is. Mine was that the meta builds in context are not actually working if they need cons. It's a bit arrogant to think it's entirely player ingenuity that makes SC work when multiple layers of consumables erase difficulty with no strategy or skill needed.

Lithril Ashwalker · Jan 31, 2011, 10:09 PM // 22:09

if somone bitches about SF needing changed they have soem things to think about:
u can get hit
u take damage
u can be touched
and soulrending shriek still hurts

Mesmers actually have a better chance in doa withthe damn mesmer spike...so woudl u rather have SF left as is or changed to be better cause i doubt a damn warrior will be able to tank doa.

so...STFU about SF u use it whether u realize it or not. DOMINO EFFECT

Bright Star Shine · Jan 31, 2011, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

if somone bitches about SF needing changed they have soem things to think about:
u can get hit
u take damage
u can be touched
and soulrending shriek still hurts

Mesmers actually have a better chance in doa withthe damn mesmer spike...so woudl u rather have SF left as is or changed to be better cause i doubt a damn warrior will be able to tank doa.

so...STFU about SF u use it whether u realize it or not. DOMINO EFFECT

Actually, originally, when the first team builds came out, W/E's were the first DoA tanks

But yeah, drop it, it ain't gonna happen and this QQing has been lasting for the last 3 years..

Dusk_ · Jan 31, 2011, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

True that. People got greedy and stupid - their intelligence has sunk to abysmal levels that they cannot see SF and Shroud of Distress are overpowered skills.

Indeed, sin skills need to be toned down, plus other classes will need more love, especially ele (in HM), para, derv and even ranger (in HM).

Wow.

"Games should be fun guys! I'm going to nerf everything that you use, now start having fun!! WHY AREN'T YOU HAVING FUN?!"

Why do all these idiots think that nerfing skills will suddenly make everyone else play the way you want them to?

Let's assume that speed clears are magically removed from the game. Will people play the way you want then? Hell no, you'll just have team-build elitism with all groups still wanting "optimal runs".

And let's be clear here: I don't speed clear. I've NEVER done a single speed clear. However, I don't live in a pipe dream.

Cuilan · Jan 31, 2011, 11:20 PM // 23:20

If that's the case we shouldn't have any skill updates at all. It's taking away people's fun by making skills better or closer to where other skills are.

Xiaquin · Jan 31, 2011, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

so woudl u rather have SF left as is or changed to be better cause i doubt a damn warrior will be able to tank doa.

The heavy armor warrior DPS/spikes and the "ninja" archetype tanks. Just...putting that out there. Yeah.

Life Bringing · Feb 01, 2011, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

i doubt a damn warrior will be able to tank doa.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5633/gw229u.jpg

Hobbs · Feb 01, 2011, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

i doubt a damn warrior will be able to tank doa.

I lol'd at this. Obviously someone didnt play DoA when it wasnt overrun with the current meta.

Bright Star Shine · Feb 01, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5633/gw229u.jpg

Wow, didn't know about that one.. Originally it was obby flesh warriors, also duo tanking I seem to remember, but it's all pretty blurry.. That was the time between DoA release and EotN coming out and Ursan taking over..

Good times, good times.. Also, pre cons, and those invincibuilds were pretty capable of holding up in there, so there's an answer to something I forgot to react to earlier..

UnChosen · Feb 01, 2011, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Vanquishing in HM with H/h:
~30 minutes per run, no failure, no people lagging out
Easy as ****
~1.5K Reward guaranteed

Doing UW in HM with pugs, using "balanced" build:
~3 hours per run (Including group formation time, washroom breaks, explanation time, etc.), tons of failures, people lag out and ruin runs.
At least 4 times as difficult compared to vanquishing

Theoretical reward of UW HM, pugs, "balanced" build:
1.5k x 6 times as long (compared to vanquishing) x 4 times as hard + 4k bonus for tolerating random drop outs = 40k

Real reward of UW HM, pugs, "balanced" build:
An average of 2 ectos per run + junk = not even 20k, especially taking into account the higher failure rate. The rare chest items that most people never get doesn't come close to making up the difference.

EoTN dungeons are even worse when it comes to reward/risk ratio. Fix this and they can nerf all the "invincible" build they want.

Dryndalyn · Feb 01, 2011, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Even though I have been playing this game since the birth of Factions, I don’t have an invincibuild, I don’t do speed clears. I don’t have Dhumm's Soul Reaper, Armbraces, or any maxed titles from Speed Booking. Heck, I don’t even do that much PvP and I haven’t even gotten around to exploring the Underworld yet, let alone the many available dungeons.

All I do is play through the game, joining PUGs when necessary, basically, trying to enjoy the game.

Yet, every time something gets nerfed because some QQer has a temper tantrum and astonishingly enough, gets listened to, it affects me and destroys my build, even though I do not participate in the issues under debate.

Nerfing is the biggest hindrance to my enjoying of the game, and as I said, I’m not involved in the issues that cause the QQers to begin shouting, “It’s not fair! I’m not as successful as he is! Waaa! Waaa!” If you want to talk about what’s fair, I’d say that the continuous nerfing that affects the average player is what’s not fair.

This is my first online game so I’ve stuck with it and I move through it slowly and at my leisure. But I want to know if other online games are nerfed as much as GWs, because I really can’t take the nerfing. I’d much rather play an online game that doesn’t have so much nerfing. I haven’t looked into it yet, but if I had already finished GWs with all of my accounts and characters, I would have.

Xiaquin · Feb 01, 2011, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dryndalyn

Yet, every time something gets nerfed because some QQer has a temper tantrum and astonishingly enough, gets listened to, it affects me and destroys my build, even though I do not participate in the issues under debate.

Nerfing is the biggest hindrance to my enjoying of the game, and as I said, I’m not involved in the issues that cause the QQers to begin shouting, “It’s not fair! I’m not as successful as he is! Waaa! Waaa!” If you want to talk about what’s fair, I’d say that the continuous nerfing that affects the average player is what’s not fair.

Are you sure the average player maintains SF, OF or earth tanking, etc.? What general builds of yours have been destroyed by nerfs? There's only a hand full of skills that need to be dealt with. I can agree that too much nerfing is a bad thing, but these are far from average skills.

NerfHerder · Feb 01, 2011, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dryndalyn

Nerfing is the biggest hindrance to my enjoying of the game, and as I said, I’m not involved in the issues that cause the QQers to begin shouting, “It’s not fair! I’m not as successful as he is! Waaa! Waaa!” If you want to talk about what’s fair, I’d say that the continuous nerfing that affects the average player is what’s not fair.

I agree, too much nerfing is a bad thing. Like Xiaquin said, there really arent that many skills that need to be toned down. Many might disagree, but I feel there are plenty of skills out there that deserve a buff for PvE, just to keep up with the power creep. Over nerfing skills makes for dull game play. Over buffing skills makes the game too easy. So it really takes a mixture of both if balance is your goal.

I created this thread to ask for skill balance across the board, and to encourage balanced teams that play together and contribute equally to the group. Not to punish players like yourself. Also, you may be thinking of the PvP nerfs that overflow into PvE, that sometimes hurts PvE builds. A nerf to SF should not effect you.

Bright Star Shine · Feb 04, 2011, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

A nerf to SF should not affect you.

Yes it would.

First of all, it would make all my ecto's worth at least 10k/ea overnight. Which isn't a bad thing, obviously.
Second of all, it would f*ck up DoASC till we find a new tank build, and I love DoA tanking, so they would take away my favorite part of the game. They would totally f*ck up the last thing I have to do in this game: make tons of money exploiting easy ways to farm DoA.
Ok, that and chest running, but if they nerfed SF, chest running would get a shitton harder all of a sudden too, so I couldn't do the two things I have left to do in this game, because I've done everything besides high-end PvP, which I'm not touching with a 20 foot pole this late in the game, although I'm ever tempted to.

This, to me and to a lot of other players in this game. Ok, SF is a tad overpowered, but it's only overpowered at tanking with bonds and running places, for every other thing it's useless, something we've established on the first page of this thread, so it doesn't really need nerfing. The way it used to be, you could roll a SF dagger spam in PvE and be awesome at every part of the game, because you could keep it up with Deadly Paradox, and you could deal as much damage as you liked, energy management was a must though.

Now, if you run SF in general PvE, you'll soon notice that you'll suck ass..

Leave the SCs to the SC'ers and the balanced stuff to the balancedway players. I'm not asking to nerf anything you're doing, am I? Besides DwG, but f*ck that topic, we ain't bringing that up again.

mage767 · Feb 04, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Yes it would.

First of all, it would make all my ecto's worth at least 10k/ea overnight. Which isn't a bad thing, obviously.
Second of all, it would f*ck up DoASC till we find a new tank build, and I love DoA tanking, so they would take away my favorite part of the game. They would totally f*ck up the last thing I have to do in this game: make tons of money exploiting easy ways to farm DoA.
Ok, that and chest running, but if they nerfed SF, chest running would get a shitton harder all of a sudden too, so I couldn't do the two things I have left to do in this game, because I've done everything besides high-end PvP, which I'm not touching with a 20 foot pole this late in the game, although I'm ever tempted to.

This, to me and to a lot of other players in this game. Ok, SF is a tad overpowered, but it's only overpowered at tanking with bonds and running places, for every other thing it's useless, something we've established on the first page of this thread, so it doesn't really need nerfing. The way it used to be, you could roll a SF dagger spam in PvE and be awesome at every part of the game, because you could keep it up with Deadly Paradox, and you could deal as much damage as you liked, energy management was a must though.

Now, if you run SF in general PvE, you'll soon notice that you'll suck ass..

Leave the SCs to the SC'ers and the balanced stuff to the balancedway players. I'm not asking to nerf anything you're doing, am I? Besides DwG, but f*ck that topic, we ain't bringing that up again.

How are you a good player if you cannot adapt to changes? Wouldn't it be nice if SF got nerfed, and you guys found the next big team build for DOASC? Wouldn't this keep you all going longer in gw1 and bring more bragging rights? Or are you just afraid that you will have suck ass times like the regular Dwg'ers?

Bright Star Shine · Feb 04, 2011, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

How are you a good player if you cannot adapt to changes? Wouldn't it be nice if SF got nerfed, and you guys found the next big team build for DOASC? Wouldn't this keep you all going longer in gw1 and bring more bragging rights? Or are you just afraid that you will have suck ass times like the regular Dwg'ers?

Nop, in fact, if only SF gets hit with the nerfstick, we'll most likely just go back to OF tanks, who used to do the job ~1,5 years ago. They did/do the job just fine, it's just that ssins are better at it, because they're more mobile, shadow stepping all over the place is cool, and if you get stuck as an E/Me in big room foundry, well, let's just say if that happens, you're f*cked. You could run E/A, with OF, geomancers, stone striker, IAU, Stoneflesh (which in fact is an utterly useless skill in DoA) Dark Escape and Death's Charge or Heart of Shadow and shit, you can take both and still have an open slot, in fact, you're be more survivable than ssins, you'd just have incredible energy management issues in City, and in general without bonds. The thing that kills off OF by far the most is it's -2 energy regen and 25e cost. You'll have to rely on Balth Spirit to keep going, and in foundry and city, you have constant QZ's up, which means your OF costs you a nice little 32,5e, not really great tbh.

Assassins are more overpowered cause they can run off and solo pull shit, the only places they rely on bonds are when doing big pulls like in front of city and foundry big room, and f*ck, I've well established on multiple occasions that even those can be tanked for quite a while without bonds. It's just that your energy isn't really helping out, QZ's up your ass and there is no seed in case of a "OH SHIT". You can hold out in big room foundry for at least 5-10 minutes before energy starts becoming a real issue, it's just more comfortable standing there, yawning at the 50 bazillion titans trying to facestomp you, and utterly failing.

Now, if they nerfed every invincibuild, meaning SB, OF and SF, you'd have yourself a little problem, because then, SCs would be impossible, and it's been well established that that is what keep most ppl in this game atm, are speedclears. Or, keeping most noob players motivated, i.e., by having the ambition to become a speedclearer themselves. Anet isn't gonna take away one of the few things that keep most ppl around, and they are especially not gonna do it ~6 months before their new shiny game comes out. Cause that would mean bad marketing.

Also, don't try to belittle me, or try to talk into my elitism (which is clearly there, and I am well aware of it) to try to let me cave in or something. It won't work.

Xiaquin · Feb 04, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

if they nerfed every invincibuild, meaning SB, OF and SF, you'd have yourself a little problem, because then, SCs would be impossible, and it's been well established that that is what keep most ppl in this game atm, are speedclears.

Is this proven? I see players all over doing different things, probably for HoM, so I'm having trouble believing that.

Either way, a skill that blocks spells should handicap the player to a reasonable extent (with some exception). If not, maybe perma spell (targeted) immunity should be removed from play.